Now it gets personal. Preaching on the most controversial theological issue would be nothing compared to the potential pastoral fallout from getting wrong a sermon on 1 Corinthians 7 - Sex & singleness
8 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Corinthinans 7 is great for anyone in a relationship trying to deal with not going too far with their partner. But what about Corinthians 6 v 12-20. Is this not the more serious warning from Paul. Just because people may not be in relationships doesn't mean they may not struggle with not sleeping with people. Should the church not warn people that sins agains the body are sins against god as our bodies belong to him v20. Surely this is the most important part of this section of Corinthians for an evening service that is 70% single. In a world where you feel dysfunctional because as a 20 or 30 something because you are not having sex. This is where we need the most encouragement. P
Sprung! I understand it's a warning but I don't get this not feeling guilty thing! Surely god created guilt as a mechanism for understanding when an individual has done something wrong. Is Guilt not a mechanism for avoiding causal behaviours in the future. V18 talks of sins against the body being set apart from other sins. V20 talks of our bodies not belonging to us. Therefore if we use our bodies in a manner not intended by their owner, then is this not theft? Is not the purpose of punishing thieves to make them understand what they have done is wrong? therefore is guilt not a method for understanding when we have wronged God?
On another note if our bodies our temples where the holy spirit dwels should we not rely on the holy spirit to help us to behave in a way the glorifies God and doesn't gratify our own sexual desires. What if you have tried and tried and tried to rely on God and the holy Spirit to help you through difficult situations but yet it hasn't helped. Where does that leave you with God?
Point three If Sins against our body are set apart surely there are lots of things that harm our bodies i.e. Drunkeness, fatty food, SMOKING! If we are to take this literally what is the difference between sex and getting drunk with another Christian or smoking with another chritian or eating fryup's with another christian.
Sorry for the long comment had a lot to get off my chest.
I have been thinking about the first part of your comments and your thoughts on guilt. I am not sure that it is solely a way of God helping us to understand when we have wronged. I am really pants at remembering Ch and V but last night was looking at Rev and thinking about the fact that the devil is the accuser and he leads us away from God and then accuses us day and night. Feeling constantly guilty and bad surely is not accepting Gods grace and the amazing act and result of the cross?? So maybe we can be more self aware through guilt but maybe we can equally be lead further away from how God wants us to be???
In the passage from Sunday (1 Corinthians 6) Paul says that drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Matt was saying that that was another way of saying that that kind of behaviour doesn’t belong in the Kingdom of God. Are we drunkards? Are we encouraging each other or discouraging each other to be drunkards? Is it ever ok to be a drunkard? How do we help people in our congregation with drinking problems? Anyone?
One point that is worth making about the drinking thing raised here is that I don't think Paul wants us to be doing that Christian thing where someone tells us they've been out drinking (having sex, lying, gossiping, slagging each other off etc.) and we do that 'raised eyebrow' and let them know we really don't approve of that kind of behaviour amongst Christians.
Having studied this a bit I think the thing to remember is that as Kingdom People we've inherited something better and greater than all these petty, worldly things that bog us down and stop us looking forward to that time when we will inherit God's Kingdom as Kings and Queens with Christ and, alongside him, judge the whole of creation!
Therefore in looking at any of these issues the best thing we can be doing is reminding each other of our TRUE identity - that isn't a sinner, a drunkard, a single person, someone who eats different food, insecure people, hurt people, aggressive people (I think I've covered most of us there!) - it is a king or queen, a judge of angels!
Also, remember, we inherit these traits (chapter 6 v 11) in the name of Christ but also in the Holy Spirit. It's our job as church to provide a place where we do everything in the name of Christ and where the power of the Spirit that Paul talks about can work in us, changing us from what we were to what we have inherited in Christ's name.
feelin a bit blown away by all these blogs and stuff but glad to have found this discussion thread as it's something that's been on my mind a bit too recently (sex that is. now there's a surprise for a single guy in his mid 20s...)
whoops that went all pete tong. anyway was about to say that i've come to think of sin and god's warnings as a bit like him wanting the absolute best for us, and that rather than being a big kiljoy and getting us to behave in a certain way it's really about what is the most excellent way (ie don't get drunk or whatever, not cos i want you to be boring but because it's not good for the health, physical or spiritual). i don't know what you think about this perhaps i'm being dumb. but i'm stuck when it comes to sex. ok, it's fairly clear about affairs whan you're married, but what about before. what's the good in abstinance? i may be barking up the wrong tree and approaching this from the wrong angle, but wanted to pose the question. and be provocative.
8 comments:
Corinthinans 7 is great for anyone in a relationship trying to deal with not going too far with their partner. But what about Corinthians 6 v 12-20. Is this not the more serious warning from Paul. Just because people may not be in relationships doesn't mean they may not struggle with not sleeping with people. Should the church not warn people that sins agains the body are sins against god as our bodies belong to him v20. Surely this is the most important part of this section of Corinthians for an evening service that is 70% single. In a world where you feel dysfunctional because as a 20 or 30 something because you are not having sex. This is where we need the most encouragement.
P
Pete don't try and be anonymous! I think they key thing about 6:18 is how damaging sexual sin is. It is a warning not a guilt trip.
Sprung! I understand it's a warning but I don't get this not feeling guilty thing! Surely god created guilt as a mechanism for understanding when an individual has done something wrong. Is Guilt not a mechanism for avoiding causal behaviours in the future. V18 talks of sins against the body being set apart from other sins. V20 talks of our bodies not belonging to us. Therefore if we use our bodies in a manner not intended by their owner, then is this not theft? Is not the purpose of punishing thieves to make them understand what they have done is wrong? therefore is guilt not a method for understanding when we have wronged God?
On another note if our bodies our temples where the holy spirit dwels should we not rely on the holy spirit to help us to behave in a way the glorifies God and doesn't gratify our own sexual desires. What if you have tried and tried and tried to rely on God and the holy Spirit to help you through difficult situations but yet it hasn't helped. Where does that leave you with God?
Point three If Sins against our body are set apart surely there are lots of things that harm our bodies i.e. Drunkeness, fatty food, SMOKING! If we are to take this literally what is the difference between sex and getting drunk with another Christian or smoking with another chritian or eating fryup's with another christian.
Sorry for the long comment had a lot to get off my chest.
I have been thinking about the first part of your comments and your thoughts on guilt. I am not sure that it is solely a way of God helping us to understand when we have wronged. I am really pants at remembering Ch and V but last night was looking at Rev and thinking about the fact that the devil is the accuser and he leads us away from God and then accuses us day and night. Feeling constantly guilty and bad surely is not accepting Gods grace and the amazing act and result of the cross?? So maybe we can be more self aware through guilt but maybe we can equally be lead further away from how God wants us to be???
In the passage from Sunday (1 Corinthians 6) Paul says that drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Matt was saying that that was another way of saying that that kind of behaviour doesn’t belong in the Kingdom of God. Are we drunkards? Are we encouraging each other or discouraging each other to be drunkards? Is it ever ok to be a drunkard? How do we help people in our congregation with drinking problems? Anyone?
One point that is worth making about the drinking thing raised here is that I don't think Paul wants us to be doing that Christian thing where someone tells us they've been out drinking (having sex, lying, gossiping, slagging each other off etc.) and we do that 'raised eyebrow' and let them know we really don't approve of that kind of behaviour amongst Christians.
Having studied this a bit I think the thing to remember is that as Kingdom People we've inherited something better and greater than all these petty, worldly things that bog us down and stop us looking forward to that time when we will inherit God's Kingdom as Kings and Queens with Christ and, alongside him, judge the whole of creation!
Therefore in looking at any of these issues the best thing we can be doing is reminding each other of our TRUE identity - that isn't a sinner, a drunkard, a single person, someone who eats different food, insecure people, hurt people, aggressive people (I think I've covered most of us there!) - it is a king or queen, a judge of angels!
Also, remember, we inherit these traits (chapter 6 v 11) in the name of Christ but also in the Holy Spirit. It's our job as church to provide a place where we do everything in the name of Christ and where the power of the Spirit that Paul talks about can work in us, changing us from what we were to what we have inherited in Christ's name.
feelin a bit blown away by all these blogs and stuff but glad to have found this discussion thread as it's something that's been on my mind a bit too recently (sex that is. now there's a surprise for a single guy in his mid 20s...)
whoops that went all pete tong. anyway was about to say that i've come to think of sin and god's warnings as a bit like him wanting the absolute best for us, and that rather than being a big kiljoy and getting us to behave in a certain way it's really about what is the most excellent way (ie don't get drunk or whatever, not cos i want you to be boring but because it's not good for the health, physical or spiritual). i don't know what you think about this perhaps i'm being dumb. but i'm stuck when it comes to sex. ok, it's fairly clear about affairs whan you're married, but what about before. what's the good in abstinance? i may be barking up the wrong tree and approaching this from the wrong angle, but wanted to pose the question. and be provocative.
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