We have set up a part of this website for creative ideas for church, a place to throw ideas around, or ask for advice. I hope it will be a resource for our service leaders or any of you involved in communicating, and a way of continuing our pursuit of authentic creative worship.
It is moderated by some of the experienced creatives in church so you can throw ideas at them, or seek their wisdom on how to do stuff better...
18 comments:
i like that you're thinking 'missionally' steve i.e about the importance of our commission as church to be a light to our communities, but i also think that its important to challenge the way we as a church creatively communicate and interact with our faith. i think that we do use types of art to do this already in our services, mostly singing songs, and i dont think there is anything wrong with wanting to vary that a bit, particularly when you consider that a diverse group of people, tastes aside, has a whole range of different learning styles.
i accept we have to check ourselves so we arent doing it for the sake of i dunno looking cool and different or something, but i think if you talk to anyone with a vision of enlarging and diversifying our creativity in our understanding, worship and mission, you'll likely find out as i have, that they share a vision that means keeping culturally dynamic and relevant to be accessible to our generation, while working out our full purpose together as followers and worshippers of christ.
oh and i like your idea of thinking more broadly about what ways our culture commuinicates: conferences, seminars etc. i think it would be great to hold a conference on an issue that we hold dear with parts of our wider society e.g. ethical issues like refugees and asylum seekers, local and global poverty, ethical living, ethical business practice... lets chat sometime...
I agree, art for art's sake is useless, and if we're doing it to be cooler than other churches then shame on us.
However, I'm not sure about the 'model' and how close we need to stick to that. We need to be relevant to everyday life, and when you think about it, just how often does the average person listen to a central speaker do a verbal presentation to a group of people sat in rows? They tend to fall in two contexts I think: entertainment (the cinema, football matches) or education (lectures, classrooms). The gospel is both and neither of those -we're presenting a whole way of life. It can't be presented just like a business seminar, or a training event, because it's not just a piece of useful information or good advice, or a consumer option. It has to be more than that, and we have to be able to communicate it with our entire lives. We need our central speakers, of course. We also need our musicians, and our writers, our poets, our painters. And we need our accountants, teachers, lawyers, market stall holders and cabaret impersonators, whatever we all are, demonstrating what it is to be a Christian, because the actual sunday service is a fraction of what it is to be church anyway.
To come back to the stuff we've been doing in services, I guess it does appeal to certain people and not others. I obviously like things are a bit more conceptual, and I can understand that that's not everyone's cup of tea. When we look at the world though, we see people are quite used to picking up on subtle or even quite abstract forms of communication. Just watch an advert break and you'll see some of our culture's most creative communication at work. At church we tend to go for the Ronseal approach, but there is more to the gospel than that.
Anyway, let's keep talking about it.
What is the problem with art for arts sake?
I think you need to mention that to God given how much time he seems to have spent on all this pointless beauty.
Do we need a motive to create, or to love what is beautiful? I think it simply reflects being made in the image of God. And the functionalism of industrial society where form follows function seems to have proven to be frankly dehumanising.
Steve,
I agree, for the last four months all I have heard is rhethoric about the format of the evening service. I personally feel it has been more damaging to the congregation than good. GOD DOESN'T CARE HOW WE WORSHIP HIM AS LONG AS WE DO IT.
Providing you stick to three principles you can not go wrong
1)Don't change what isn't broken
2)Don't do anything that makes people want to cringe and think these Christians are like little kids (I.e draw cartoons with crayons, plant tomato plants, write a song / psalm about God)
3)Don't ask people to turn to a complete stranger and talk to them about GOD.... seriously forcing a nervous person to do something they may not want to do is never going to encourage them. They will never come back!
I think it may be time to move on from this subject and talk about God in our lives and how we can be "letters of recomendation to God". I appreciate some may see that representing God can also be
in our evening service but I think we have got the point; we want to be more relevant to our community to try and make church more accessible.
Maybe we should just get some bigger doors and hold a normal church service, controversial as that may be!
Pete (sorry forgot blooger login)
Normal church service? and what exactly would that be...
I do see that we have talked about this issue for some time and I also see being naturally and 'organically' creative should mean that we shouldn't need to discuss it at length first.
However I think that having the space to think it thru, to ponder why and how we worship God, how we can be more inclusive, how we can help people to see God in their world, means that we do not start offending people left right and centre and also allows people the space to have a few opnions to share and also to hear.
If you don't mind me saying its better than just offending people with comments about behaving like children. I know for a fact that when one of my friends was asked to think about how God had been an influence in their life and then given the option to draw it out, they loved it, and I am also sure it still sits in their room to look at, and reminds them of God in their Life. Yes its not everyones cup of tea but it IS SOME PEOPLES cup of tea.
Peter you're right God doesn't care how we worship him and I agree we should just 'get on with it', however exploring new ways (and old ways) of doing so, means we are constantly evaluating what we believe and why. Only a good thing surely? I know I don't just want to follow what has always been done because thats what we 'do' and have always done.
As for don't fix what aint broken.... maybe thats for another time!
We have all been made in HIS image and all be made unique, lets allow ourselves to be different and express God in our lives in different ways.
Bee - not normally a blogger, so my thoughts maybe a bit confused but I was reading and then suddenly found myself in the comments box before I knew it.
Well, herein lies the problem for Church on the Corner I suppose, and at some point we need to decide whether we're just another church, or if we are open to something new. If we're happy with a normal service and the 'not broken, leave well alone' philosophy, then lets sell that pub and stop pretending.
And if we actually are a creative, innovative faith community who are willing to try things differently, then let's get the bar back in! Or better yet, meet in an actual pub.
Our 'is it a pub? is it a church?' building on the corner is kind of defining us, in my view.
Great to see some real debate on the blog, by the way. Thanks for taking the time, people.
Pete, I have to disagree with you, the'aint broke don't fix it' just isn't right. The church in the UK is still declining and if we don't do some different Islam will be the major religion within the UK. Don't stiffle people doing church differently. Surely COTC should be a place where we try new, innovatibe forms of church. Where we might get it wrong, but we also might just get it right. Lets continue to think outside of the box, how church should be done. One think we are talking about here is how we can start a church through football. It might fail, but it might just work.
Jon Hamilton.
if only arsenal could think inside the box... :)
here's some responses
er... art for art's sake, or art for art's sake for God's sake. definitely. make it pretty, make it ugly, don't make it dull.
I think God does care about how we worship- not as much as whether we worship though- but he cares, he's part of it.
the building is not ours to sell.
i think it does define us, or defines the way we think about our identity. does it reflect us? could we be the same people somewhere else? would something be lost/gained? pub/old church?
Not wanting to continue the debate but just wanting to clarify my points.
It was merely a perception that some may consider drawing pictures with crayons an act associated with children..... I do of course realise some people enjoy drawing with crayons or indeed chalk, charcoal or paint. Why don't we start an arts class with bean bags and meditation to encourage the churches creative gifts!
The 'if it ain't broke then don't fix it' comment was not a reference to the church as a whole or indeed to us as individuals as we are all broken. I just didn't see the evening service as broken in terms of it's format. If one wanted to be creative and to engage with people on a alternative level perhalps a 5pm folk music service could be an option. I know Garmon would enjoy that.
Be real and down to earth in your delivery of the gospel on a sunday night and your not going to get too many complaints.
As for the bring back the bar idea I could not agree more a Friday night open mic night with cheap bar is a great way to introduce people to the church and make them realise that Christians can be normal...... sometimes. Just keep Neil away from the bar!
Love ya guys
Pedro
To a certain extent, some of the discussion above reflects how our left/ right brain dominance affects our own particular worship needs. If you're generally somebody who is drawn to information and propostional statements (a 'left brain' person if you'll forgive the broad brush statement) then it's likely that more linear, structured worship formats will connect with your needs. In the same way, for 'right brain' people to be satisfied, less structure is important, with more intuitive, perhaps expressive elements (crayons etc!)
My understanding is that only geniuses relate equally well with both sides of their brain, so it's important we recognise the need for both approaches as represented in our God-given diversity and avoid presenting one as 'better' than the other.
All Saints Interloper
To a certain extent, some of the discussion above reflects how our left/ right brain dominance affects our own particular worship needs. If you're generally somebody who is drawn to information and propostional statements (a 'left brain' person if you'll forgive the broad brush statement) then it's likely that more linear, structured worship formats will connect with your needs. In the same way, for 'right brain' people to be satisfied, less structure is important, with more intuitive, perhaps expressive elements (crayons etc!)
My understanding is that only geniuses relate equally well with both sides of their brain, so it's important we recognise the need for both approaches as represented in our God-given diversity and avoid presenting one as 'better' than the other.
All Saints Interloper
Just so we can clarify one thing, people, much as I think that bringing back the bar is a good idea, it may not work in an Anglican Church. We can't sell alcohol on the premises, and we can probably only push the 'suggested donation' thing so far. Non-alcoholic bar has been tried before and not been successful...and the bring your own option?.....
Wow - 16 comments so far is a record! This seems like a really important discussion. Keep it up!
Who says we can't sell alcohol on the premises (theoretically)?
Oooh, right and left brainers rift! I couldn't make up my mind which camp I am in, so took a test on tickle called the brain test, and found my left and right sides are equally dominant. Is it true that it is left against right brain in this debate? Check yourself with the brain test on tickle and lets find out...
Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we may have a genius in our midst...!
All Saints Interloper
Greets to the webmaster of this wonderful site. Keep working. Thank you.
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Great site loved it alot, will come back and visit again.
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